Ellie Cole's Couch - Lorna transcript
Lorna: My name is Lorna Farooq. I'm 63 and I'm from South Africa, and I'm working at APM Gosnells.
Ellie: Now, APM over in WA, it's a little bit further away from South Africa, isn't it?
Lorna: It is, it is.
Ellie: So, you were born in South Africa right near Cape Town, I understand.
Lorna: Yeah.
Ellie: What was it like there when you were growing up?
Lorna: It was really good for me. South Africa’s still got a base, although there's a lot of negativity from the news and people that leave South Africa, but it's still in your blood, you know.
Ellie: And what would a typical week look like for you growing up? Did you have a big family back at home?
Lorna: I had two brothers. One passed away with COVID, during COVID, so it's my sister and my older brother, so we were only like, 4 children at home. My dad passed away 13 years ago. He lost his two legs due to diabetes.
Ellie: Oh really?
Lorna: Yeah. So, he was also struggling with a disability at the age of 65. And his biggest thing was saying, ”you don't know what work is like until you don't work anymore. And when you stop working, that's when you're ready to die. You know, that's when you're ready to go. So, keep on working, doesn't matter what's coming your way.”
Ellie: I've heard that advice from quite a lot of people throughout my lifetime. So, you have memories of your dad being able-bodied and then losing his legs to diabetes.
Lorna: Yes, and going through that journey with him, how people treated him because they see that he's got no legs and assume that he can't think. You know, that he's now half a person, when he's actually exactly the same, it’s just that he didn't have legs.
Ellie: I remember growing up - I've only lost one of my legs, but I remember growing up in my childhood and I think disability knowledge, even back in the 1990s, was so different to how it is now. And I remember a lot of conversations that I had with people from a generation that hadn't been exposed as much to disability, and a lot of people speaking very slowly to me, thinking that I wouldn't be able to comprehend what they were saying. So, I had to learn a lot of self-strength from that, and I'm sure that your dad did too.
Lorna: Yeah, that's what he said. He's like, “people think because my legs are gone, I'm only a half a person, but I'm actually still the full person, I just lost walking.”
Ellie: And that must have been an incredibly important lesson for you and your siblings to learn as well?
Lorna: Yeah, definitely, because it was like, from this proud, hardworking man into a person that sits in a wheelchair, gets treated differently, was bound to the house when he used to be active.
Ellie: When your father lost his legs, at the time, you were living in South Africa?
Lorna: Yeah.
Ellie: What was the support like for your father in terms of transitioning into a life of a disability, as well as the support for your family? Was there any?
Lorna: You know those years, there was not really psychology help that we've got today. My mum had to look after my dad. My husband used to bath him, put him in the bath. But like, every movement you need to do, where you assume it's natural, for him was like an insult. You know, his pride was gone because somebody would have to help him to the toilet, put him into the bath, dress him, put him back into the wheelchair. So, the proud man was gone.
Ellie: And it sounded like he also had a lot of his independence taken away. And we're very fortunate now to live in a world where, oftentimes, if you're very lucky, you can access support to help regain that independence. And it does make a huge difference to somebody's quality of life, doesn't it?
Lorna: Yeah, and also get yourself - it helps a lot to get your confidence back because obviously when you're diagnosed with any disability, first thing that goes is your confidence. “I'm not the same anymore. I'm scared. I'm scared for the unknown. I don’t know what's going to be ahead. How's work going to treat me? How's my colleagues going to treat me?” So, it's all those fears, and then at the end, you realise when you accept this is how it's going to be, you realise most of the fears was unnecessary. You stress yourself out for things that actually never happened in your circle.
Ellie: What was the process with you relocating to an entirely new country at the age of 50 years old? Lorna: You need to make a decision. My husband made the decision that it's going to be better for his children. So, we had to sell everything, pack up everything, only allow 23 kilos of luggage. So, we arrive here, each with 23 kilos of luggage.
Ellie: One suitcase each?
Lorna: One suitcase each.
Ellie: So, you were diagnosed with Parkinson's disease whilst working at the hotel?
Lorna: No, working for APM.
Ellie: So, you start, you began at APM and then you retired, and then was diagnosed with Parkinson?
Lorna: I was working with APM, got Parkinson’s, and then retired for three months, and then went back because they kept on phoning me. One of my colleagues said, “come back, come back!” I said “okay, I’m back!”
Ellie: They missed you too much?
Lorna: Missed the clients, let me go back!
Ellie: Well, if we go back to your first day at APM, what was it like to walk through the doors of the organisation? At that point you didn't actually have an experience yourself with disability, apart from knowing other people that had had one. But what was your first day like?
Lorna: So, obviously I was nervous because more for the computer than anything else. The two girls that were there were lovely. I got in, they tried to help me. I said, “where do you switch the computer on?” Just do this and that, and click here and click there. So, they actually moved next to me and they said, “it's going to be better if we just sit next to you.” That night when I got home, I got a vertigo attack
Ellie: From looking at the screens.
Lorna: It must have been from stress or something, and I went to a hospital, and I called them in and I said, “I'm going to be two days off work,” and the girl said, “oh my goodness, she's gone forever.” And when I showed up the third day, they said “no, you're going to be here at APM forever because you returned.” And they have all gone and I'm still there.
Ellie: Yeah, that's amazing. So, tell me about the journey with being diagnosed with Parkinson's disease. I only know of one other person in my life that has Parkinson's, but I don't know too much about it.
Lorna: So, Parkinson's started with the tremor in my thumb. And I thought “oh, my goodness, what's happening now?” And then it started to shake in the hand. And then the GP referred me to the Parkinson research, and then they discovered that I had Parkinson’s. And he told me, “you've got Parkinson's,” and I was like – I didn't show any emotions, I didn't know what he was talking about. What is Parkinson's about? Because in South Africa it's not very common. They call it - when you start shaking over there, they say you’ve got ‘old age shaking.’ And then I ordered a book, and I start reading the book, and then I realised this is massive. But I was putting it in back of my head, and my first thing was “what are people going to say? How long before I sit in a wheelchair? What is work going to say?” So, it was all more worry about what are the impacts, other areas impacted, and rather how's it going to impact me. And fatigue is a big thing. I woke up at 3:00AM at night and I can't sleep any further. So, then I need to push through until the whole day and then until 10:00PM tonight. And it's daily, your fear is coming, when is it my time to go to the wheelchair? You know, because there's no measure. They can't say - some Parkinson's develop slowly, some go fast, so it’s hard to tell.
Ellie: That experience of being diagnosed with Parkinson's disease for the first time, how did it feel when you heard those words, that you were facing, you know, the rest of your life with a disability and you're not necessarily sure how that disability is going to progress?
Lorna: It was shock. It was a big shock, but it shocked me in a different way. It was like it left me without a feeling. I don't know if that makes sense. It's like you know you got the message, but it doesn't sink in. It took me a couple of months before I really realised, now it's not going to go away. It's like you put it in the back and you hide it. And then I started to tell people, and I told work, and they said, “what do you need?” Straight away management said “what do you need? What we can do for you, what can APM do for you?” And I said, “at this stage I'm OK.” “No, we can do your desk, stand-up desk.” They bought me a special chair, they bought me a special mouse, and every time when they see me they say, “is there anything you need?” So, the support from work was massive. And I've always felt, due to APM, I've got the courage to go to work every day and push through all the barriers and stuff, and just help other people.
Ellie: I think that element of care doesn't necessarily come from the fact that you have a disability. I think it comes from the fact that you're a human being.
Lorna: Yeah.
Ellie: And we love to convey, you know, that message of care to all of the people that walk through the door at APM, regardless of what their background is, regardless of what their disability is, knowing that they can come through the doors and be treated like a human being.
Lorna: Yeah.
Ellie: Oftentimes, people who are seeking assistance and being placed into employment may have never even been afforded that before.
Lorna: Yeah.
Ellie: So, it's wonderful to have people such as yourself who not only have lived experience of disability but are givers.
Lorna: Yeah.
Ellie: Being able to provide that for people who are needing help.
Lorna: Yeah, because when they come through, they've got exactly the same feeling that I had when I got diagnosed. It's like, “where am I going? What are the people going to do?” Normally they're negative because they see us as punishment for them. They don't really understand, until you work with them and explain to them, “the goal is to find you a suitable job when you're ready.” I'm always using the words “when you're ready, “and then start telling them about my journey and they say, “okay, I think I can do not too much standing, three to four hours,” and I say “that sounds good. We can do you over two days instead of one day of eight hours.” And then they start coming up with solutions how to - what they would want to do to help to find a job.
Ellie: As somebody within APM who has been provided accommodations that you need, understanding that you need, being able to come to work as their complete authentic self, good days or bad days, how does that make you feel knowing that you can come to work every day exactly as you are?
Lorna: It makes me feel good because I'm excited to go to work because I'm thinking, “who am I placing today in a job whose life I'm changing?” You feel at the end of the day you've done something for somebody that never expected any help from anybody because the world is cruel outside. So, I want them, when they come through APM doors, to know we're there, we support, do the values, the core values, do everything for the impossible, and then let them decide, “you're ready, you need to go to work.” We're here to find you a job. But like I said, when you're ready.
Ellie: How do you feel knowing that you provide someone those opportunities every day? When you look back in your 50s, knowing that your dad was going through an experience where he wasn't being provided with those opportunities. How do you think he would feel looking at the work that you're doing now?
Lorna: I think he would be very, very proud. And I always say, “APM changed my life.” We always say APM changed the job seekers life, but nobody really sees the side where APM changed the employer's life. So, by calling that one phone call made me change a lot of people's lives, where I wouldn't be able to. I would never thought that I would be able to do the work I'm doing today and changing people's lives, because it's people with disabilities. And now that I've got it myself, I realise how much more they need. We're not trained, but we can help them with our experience.
Ellie: What is your favourite part about working for APM?
Lorna: My favourite part is definitely seeing how the people progress from not believing in themselves to start building their confidence, moving step-by-step forward until they get into a job, and then getting them from four weeks, thirteen weeks, twenty-six weeks. Then I say, you’ve graduated, time to fly to 52 weeks. Don't fly away, just come back and say hello.
Ellie: They've got their wings to make sure they come home to say hi.
Lorna: They must come home
Ellie: Grandma Lorna!
Lorna: They must come home, and they do come home. They come in when they're in the area just to say, “hello, how are you?”
Ellie: After seeing your dad go through an experience of acquiring a disability at a late age, and then you yourself acquiring your own disability at a late age, I suppose you've seen the before and afters of what it's like to have a disability. And your personalities had already been so so developed by that stage as well when you did acquire your disability, so what are some of the things that you have learnt about yourself since being diagnosed with Parkinson's disease that makes you not only better at your role at APM, but also has contributed positively to your life?
Lorna: I think the big thing is, it's like you change your way of thinking. You know, we always say “tomorrow's another day.” So, I live now my day as today because I don't know what's happening tomorrow. Things that you normally would put off and say, “I'll do it next week or the week after,” I try to do it when it's due. The way you look at other people changes, because it's like, you know, did I change, or did they change? But it's actually you that changed. So, you change for the better if you get yourself out of that shock and depression and anxiety of what's next. So just accept it. My advice to people, accept what happened. You got a card, you have to deal with that card now. And the way you're going to deal with it, will lead you to the outcome. So, this is just how I approach every day.
Ellie: Sounds like you're saying that you don't necessarily live your life focusing too much on Parkinson's, but it's actually put things into perspective for you in a way.
Lorna: That's it. It makes you see things differently. It's not grey anymore. It's either white or black. So, your thoughts are either positive or negative. And it's like mental health - I mean, you can work on it, and tomorrow, you don't - people get cured from when they go for sessions. The importance of talking about it, sharing with people, get it out of your system, because a lot of people that have a disability just keep it to themselves. And I think the importance is the world out there needs to know. And also, when you put your foot down, I'm not going to be treated differently because I've got a disability. I've got a right, like you, to live my life. And I think that that message should go out.
Ellie: I'm sure that a lot of people that come to see you in Disability Employment Services are very much out of their comfort zone.
Lorna: Yeah.
Ellie: They're facing a lot of unknowns. And oftentimes, not even at the point where they have accepted that they have a disability.
Lorna: Yeah.
Ellie: And so, for you to sit across the desk from them, to have one yourself, to be able to share that information with them, how important do you think that is?
Lorna: I think it's important not to hide that you’ve got a disability because you save and change lives using your own example of life, to share it with other people. And they are thinking, “if she can share it, I can do the same.” So, when they hear it from me, they are at first, in shock. When they come for the next appointment, I say, “thank you for sharing. I had a good think at home about what you said, it makes sense.” And I think they respect you more because you're sharing something that was like, in the past, hidden. Now it's vocal. We speak about it. We're not hiding it in the closet anymore.
Ellie: And it's amazing to think that with your dad losing his legs to diabetes, in that moment, I'm sure you never would have thought about being in the position that you are now, with the mindset that you have now.
Lorna: Yeah, no. Definitely not.
Ellie: It's hard to see it in those moments, isn't it?
Lorna: Yeah, because it's like a new world opening. It's like you see that suddenly you realise there's more things valuable, like legs, like not sitting in a wheelchair, you know, that kind of thing. There’s more to life.
Ellie: What are some of the benefits that you've seen to the employer when you place someone with a disability in their organisation?
Lorna: For me always, I say to the employer, “you’ve changed somebody's life, you’ve helped somebody move forward in life. You understand that disability is a little bit harder work than with people with no disability because they need more support, but that's why APM are there to support them through the journey and help them. If you are open, and discuss with us, we can discuss with the job seeker and we can, we can make solutions and give advice and things.” And then I think the employers - they see the benefit of changing people's life. I think that's the big thing.
Ellie: If an organisation was to come to APM and say “I would love to have somebody with a disability come and work for us, what advice would you give them? What would the first step for them be to take?
Lorna: I'm going to say you're going to have people that's loyal, you're going to have people that really want a second chance in life. You're going to give that second chance and they’re going to change their lives. A little bit of hard work, but we will work together, and we will get them across the line.
Ellie: Thank you so much, Lorna, for your time today.
Lorna: You’re welcome.
Ellie: I've loved chatting to you, and you're so incredibly passionate about what you do, and it sounds very rewarding for you as well.