Ellie Cole’s Couch – Graham transcript

00:00 Intro

Ellie: Hey Graham, thank you so much for joining us today.

Graham: A pleasure.

Ellie: I'm really looking forward to hearing about all of your experiences throughout your life, and how that's translated into your role at APM. So, are you able to introduce yourself to the audience, what your name is, how old you are, and what your role is?

Graham: Yeah so, Graham Edwards, north of early fifties. Role in APM is a Community Engagement Consultant for the inner west, Western Sydney, and the MacArthur region.

Ellie: So, are you able to tell us some unique things about yourself, maybe things that people might not know?

Graham: So, I grew up in New Zealand. Crossed to - so I got a British passport, New Zealand, and Australian.

Ellie: Wow. Three passports.

Graham: Bit of a travel. I spent 20, 23 years in the reserves. So, I was struggling. This is now effectively my third career that I’m moving into.

01:02 Changing careers

Ellie: Three careers. So, you started in the ADF?

Graham: I started originally in finance.

Ellie: Yeah.

Graham: And straight out of school - find a job. Not a problem. Got a job and stayed with it for 30 years. Always had an interest in the military, and so joined the reserve as well, and ran that concurrently. And then started collecting some redundancies and thought, “maybe a time for a career change”, and did some studies in HR.

I've always had a bent towards L&D as a passion and found a local job. The business manager took a chance and said, “come on board.” Yeah, that was two years ago.

Ellie: So, you've only been in this career now for two years, transitioning out of the ADF. What's the last two years been like for you, and what have you learned about yourself in the role over the last two years?

Graham: It's a different environment. You're dealing face-to-face with people who have conditions, have situations and challenges that they deal with on a day-to-day basis. So, being able to make a difference to people's lives in that space is part of the reason why I took the role up.

02:18 Developing hip condition

Ellie: At what point did you get to in your career throughout finance, throughout working in the ADF reserves, where you decided that you wanted to step into this role and enable better lives?

Graham: I was working in the city predominantly for 30 odd years, and over the last, sort of, 10 years, my body decided that it really didn't want to function the way that it is designed to function. So, my hips basically started to fall apart. So, the reserve - I decided I'd pull the pin on that - I can't physically do the training, I can't do the activity levels.

I found that traveling into the city, hour, hour and a half every day, one way, sitting on trains - I couldn't do it. It was getting too much. And this was an opportunity that came up, and my partner said, “look, you know, you've got the expertise, you've done your degree, you've always had this interest. Give it a try.” And I was fortunate, yeah. The door was opened, and off we go.

Ellie: You walked right through it.

Graham: Pretty much, yeah.

Ellie: So if we go back to - you mentioned before - you know, you have experiences of discomfort with your hips and that caused issues with long-term travel and traveling into the city. Where did that originate from? Have you always lived with some kind of, is it considered to be a disability in the hips?

Graham: In a way, it is. It's not formally recognised as a disability, I haven’t gone down that path. But I used to be very athletic when I was young. I used to do a lot of running, a lot of sprinting, cross-country. And then roll that into defence. So, a lot of training, a lot of fitness routines with that, and just the constant pounding, the constant aggravation in the hips, it got them to the point where, it was about eight years ago, I was told, “you won't be walking in six months’ time.”

Ellie: Oh, really? What was that like for you?

Graham: It was a bit, I’d say, confronting, it was a bit “okay, hold my beer.”

Ellie: Yeah. Okay.

Graham: I’ll prove you wrong. And so I did. So, it was a bit of a lifestyle change. It was a bit of a challenge. I had to give the reserve away.

Ellie: How did you find the experience of remembering what it was like to be completely able-bodied, and being able to achieve anything you wanted to physically when you were younger, to all of a sudden having to face these hurdles of pain and difficulty with the duration that you're walking on, the duration that you're standing?

Graham: I think it was just a case of, I'm getting older, I just accept it.

Ellie: Yeah.

Graham: There's nothing I can do to change it. Yes, I could have a hip replacement, have a double hip replacement surgery, but that's not going to bring that back. It's not going to make differences. So, I could either sit here and mope about it and go, “okay, yeah, woe me,” or “all right, what can I do? If I can't do that, I can do something else, well, fine.”

05:30 Hobbies

Ellie: So, what do you do now? What do you do for enjoyment?

Graham: Enjoyment? A lot of stuff that doesn't involve running and sitting, and physical activity. I do a lot of reading, computers. I love model making.

Ellie: Model making?

Ellie: What kind of things do you make?

Graham: Just plastic kits mainly.

Ellie: Yeah.

Graham: I'm not very good at it, but it keeps me occupied.

Ellie: Yeah.

Graham: It keeps me out of trouble.

Ellie: I find those things really therapeutic actually.

Graham: They can be, just sitting there, and your mind - you’re focused on something and everything else just sort of zones out at times.

Ellie: How do you go with Lego?

Graham: One of my kids is passionate about Lego, it's his new thing.

Ellie: Yeah.

Graham: Unfortunately, I have a bit of OCD, so Lego for me, it doesn't have the right shapes and everything else.

Ellie: Okay, you want something a bit more realistic. Yeah. No, I understand that.

Graham: So, I sort of looked at it, he's got some really interesting kits actually. They look really good, and he's getting really good at it. He's actually designing his own Lego things now.

Ellie: Really?

Graham: Yeah.

Ellie: How do you do that?

Graham: I have no idea, but he does. He's got that OCD passion for it.

Ellie: Yeah.

Graham: And when he focuses on something, he just does it really, really well. If he doesn't care about it, forget about it.

Ellie: Yeah.

Graham: Like housework.

Ellie: That's a good skill set to have, though.

Graham: Doing housework, yeah, but he doesn't have OCD for that.

Ellie: Doesn’t he? He might when he's a little older. How old is he?

06:56 Son’s experience with disability

Graham: He’s 22. Yeah, so I have - the eldest has moved out. Young one is at home with us. He has a number of conditions which are a challenge for him. So, the main conditions at the moment, he has epilepsy, he is mid to low spectrum autistic, he has OCD, and can have anxiety on top of that as well. And there's a couple of other things as well, just to really make his life a little bit more interesting.

Ellie: At what point in his life did you and your partner realise that he might have a condition that he might need to live with?

Graham: He sort of developed it, really after inoculations when he was about two. So, he's had a lifetime with it. But, I mean, give him a lot of credit, he's matured over the last, sort of, four to five years, probably the last four years. He's moving forwards in leaps and bounds. He's still, you know, he still has some setbacks. Unfortunately, his epilepsy still has episodes.

You see the transition over the last five to six years from, you know, the mental health point of view was a significant issue for him. And it gets to the point where at the moment, they’re relatively controlled but still unpredictable.

Ellie: Yeah. So, is it a case where you’re not entirely sure, day-by-day, what things are going to look like?

Graham: We sort of have an idea when you look in the morning, and you sort of look at the appearance, or you look at the activity as to what he's doing. You understand maybe what has happened the previous day. So, we still don't know the triggers, but we theorise things like stress.

Ellie: Yeah.

Graham: Things where routine - because of his other conditions, he likes routine, he likes things to go according to plan. If they don't, that can cause stress, which then feeds and increases the risk of him having an episode. And then sometimes he becomes very aware of that. And recently he's sort of, he's been able to deal with it where he recognises that he's having - he's sort of going down the rabbit hole - and he reaches down, pulls himself back out of it, which is brilliant.

You know, sometimes I'm quite amazed and give him a lot of credit for what he's got to, where he is now, compared to where he was a couple of years ago, where he's actually acknowledging. And he sticks his hand up and says, “yes, I do have these conditions.” Beforehand he didn't. The challenge we have now is to work out what his next pathways are. And where his independence is going to come from. And that, that I think he's got about 70% complete now.

Ellie: Yeah. He's certainly I suppose, getting to that age where those things are going to be considered, and it sounds like he is learning a lot about his own self-awareness.

Graham: Yeah.

Ellie: Do you think that - is that what you were referencing before when you said he's come a long way in the last four years?

Graham: He has I mean, he had a very tough schooling. And I think any kid who's at school, unfortunately, because they are, I hate using the word different, because they’re not like everybody else, becomes a target for bullying. And the schools, you know, try to do what they can, but they can't be there all the time.

Ellie: Yeah.

Graham: So, the kids have that negative experience to start with, and that carries forward. And that then carries forward into their, you know, into their adolescence. Then into young adulthood, and through their life where they always view themselves as being different. And sometimes that can be a self-fulfilling prophecy, in that space. But I think, you know, as I said, it's giving someone confidence to believe in themselves and show their abilities.

And this is, this is a challenge I know that the consultants do day in, day out, when they're dealing with people, you know, dealing with employers and say, “Iook, give the person an opportunity to show what their abilities actually are.”

11:32 Disability awareness and advocacy

Ellie: Do you think that your experience of what you've been through with your osteo issues, and as well as your son and what his experiences have been like, do you think that has played a huge part in your role at APM?

Graham: He's actually the reason - he's the motivation - why I do what I do, and why I'm passionate about it, because I know how hard it is. He's worked, he's held down jobs, he can do three to four, average three months, but then he struggles. And that is because he doesn't get the supports.

You know, with employers, employers find it hard to relate, some of the communication issues, feedback, things like that. And so, the motivation for getting out, for getting supports, for networking, for building this business, if you like, or this role, is driven largely by him and his experiences, as to how he's found and faces challenges over the last couple of years.

Ellie: Working for APM, how has it felt for you over the last two years that you've been there, and working for a workplace that's really inclusive, and the whole philosophy of it is empowerment and choice?

Graham: It's been interesting. I mean, as a third career, it's a complete culture shock dealing with people every day coming in. The hardest part I found was dealing with a lot of negative attitude from participants.

Ellie: Yeah.

Graham: And it's more so because of what they're going through day in, day out. And as I said earlier, the lack of opportunity I feel sometimes.

Ellie: What does a day look like for you?

Graham: The way I describe it, when I'm talking to people, it's promoting disability awareness and advocacy. It is in - with a focus on employment and education for people. It's liaising with community groups, RTOs, councils, anybody and everybody who deals with disability across, effectively, Western Sydney.

Ellie:  Yeah.

Graham: I have regions that I generally work in, but I will go most places in Sydney.

Ellie: How’s it been working for APM, and how have they supported you over the last two years?

Graham: The flexibility has been good. The local office has been great because as I say, my son, his epilepsy has been uncontrolled every now and then, he suddenly goes through some bad patches. And my partner has had a job change, which has meant they’re working in the office a couple of days a week.

So, we try and balance that out, where I’m trying to work locally where I can, while they're in the office. So, we’ve sort of got that peace of mind so he doesn't stress, like, oh, if something goes wrong, one of us will be there in 20 minutes. You've got some very good ECs there, very good consultants who are motivated to do what they do, and they're very good at what they do.

Ellie: And it must be so empowering for you as well, to be able to see that team deliver an amazing service out into the communities.

Graham: It's good to celebrate success at times, and when you've got people who have overcome, and participants who have overcome significant barriers and you're able to get them into employment, and you're able to keep them in employment, it's just not getting them a job, it's maintaining that it’s being sustainable employment.

Ellie: Yeah.

Graham: It's good to celebrate those successes, I think. And then you see some teams, yeah they do. They call it out. And yeah, I'll be honest, it's human nature.

Ellie: It sounds like you have so much experience in so many different areas as well.

Graham: It's interesting. Yeah. You're amazed at some of the skills that you pick up in some of the training courses that you went through in different jobs, and you think, “oh, I'm never going to use that.” But then you find yourself, not speaking the speak, but you go, you're doing something, and you’re going “how did I learn - how did I know how to do that?”

Ellie: And I feel like that in itself, the transferable skills that you learn, you might be put in an environment where you might not think that you're learning anything or you're not enjoying it, but then you go into a different environment and you do take those skills across to that. Is that something that, do you think that can be taught to, like an APM participant or someone who's trying to find employment?

Graham: I think the consultants do a really good job in that because, you know, you might have, people who've been caring for kids, raising a family, and been out of the workforce 10 to 15 years. And, you know, they're like, “oh, well, I don't have skills and I haven't worked and I haven't got this.” And consultants are looking and going, “well hang on, you’re raising a family so you've got budgeting, you've got time management, you've got you've got all these skills that come with raising family.”

Ellie: Yeah.

Graham: And I think that's one of the key things on that. That's what makes a difference. Where you're taking that “hey, everybody has abilities. You might have a physical condition that means you can't A, B and C, but you have an ability. You have skills.”

Ellie: It's interesting hearing you talk about different abilities rather than disability, because I've read that you love the saying ‘you've got disability and dat ability’ translated to ‘you have this ability and that ability.’ Are you able to speak to that?

Graham: It's exactly what you said. I don't know where I picked it up from, but exactly that: everybody has an ability. And everybody has things that, yeah okay, they may not be able to do, but if you focus on disability and then you go, “okay, well, this person has disability and that ability, give them a try.” Let them show what they can do.

17:16 Vulnerability and empathy

Ellie: Do you think that your lived experience of having a disability or a hip condition has translated into your role at APM?

Graham: I think it has in a way. You know, you have an outlook, you can relate to people. And the number of conversations I have with, you know, with participants earlier where they're like - you've sort of got that viewpoint where they're like, “oh, you're this person trying to tell me that I need to do this and do this, and do this, what would you know about disability?” And then I'd go to print something, talking away. So, I'll just print something, get up and go and walk to the printer. And of course, I can't walk that well.

Ellie: Yeah.

Graham: And they come back and they look at you and go, “oh, what's your problem?”

“Well, I actually have this condition and that condition, and this condition” and their mood changes.

Ellie: Yeah.

Graham: Where they realise, hey yeah, you actually do understand them. Relating, you know, with my son, relating to his conditions, you can empathise with people, you can talk to people, and you can have conversations, whether it's with the individuals or, you know, the parents with the younger cohort, you can relate, you can understand what the triggers are. And so you have a degree of empathy. But at the same token, you can also take more of a challenging approach to them as well, and challenge them and say, “well, look, why can't you do it?”

Ellie: It's hard I think, stepping into the unknown sometimes without a clear path forward. So, to have someone create that path for you or help you design what it looks like, must be really exciting?

Graham: It is. And you know, we'll stick our hand up and say, “yes, sometimes we'll get it wrong.” Sometimes we’ll make a mistake. But then we learn from it, as long as we don't keep making the same mistake, fine. That's what I would say to anybody. Put your foot out. Try, try the first step. See where you go. See what you can achieve.

Ellie: Well, I really enjoyed our talk today. You have amazing insights and we're very lucky to have you at APM. But thank you so much for joining us.

Graham: Pleasure. Thanks.

Ellie: I really enjoyed it. Thank you.